"We decided to leave when we're on top as opposed to the bands that hang out too long."

An honest (last?) conversation with industrial metal godfather Al Jourgensen about the new (last) Ministry album "The Last Sucker", the upcoming (last) Ministry tour The See You Latour, the endless (last) Ministry inspiration entitled George W. Bush, and lots of others (last?) topics...

Al Jourgensen: Hello, who's this?

Vassil Varbanov: Hi man, this is Vassil from Bulgaria.

A. J.: Hellooo! What's going on in Bulgaria?

V. V.: Everything's fine! How do you actually pronounce your family name? You know, here in Bulgaria people pronounce it as "Yurgensen".

A. J.: Yeah, that's ok. When I was living in Europe, I basically answered to "Yurgensen", but here it's with a "J"... but you know what? I pretty much answer to anything - dickhead, asshole, ha-ha-ha!

V. V.: Let's now talk about your upcoming album, "The Last Sucker", which is promoted as the last ever album by Ministry. Obviously, it's a very American record... so why should we Europeans pay attention to it?

A. J.: Because it's a world economy, a world society, one hand affects the other, and our policy is obviously affecting the rest of the world... as do other countries' policies. It's all connected now - exactly what they said in the 90's would be a new world order.

V. V.: So how should we think about "The Last Sucker" - as the funeral album or the swan song?

A. J.: Neither. View it as a really kick-ass Ministry record, because that's what it is, that's what we set out to do. We didn't set out to do this a big dramatic send-off rock opera and a seven-year tour and then a reunion... It's just a kick-ass Ministry record. We work good at what we do, we know our Ministry sound and we just do it, and the reason is that I said two years ago it's gonna happen, so I've been preparing for this for a while. I mean we didn't take it any differently. We just said, let's make a kick-ass album to leave with. Tommy Victor has Prong going on, Paul Raven has Mob Research and Killing Joke, I have a record label, 13th Planet Records, and I'm producing like 3-4 other bands, I have one more Revolting Cocks record to do... We're so busy that we just figured to leave when we're on top as opposed to the bands that hang out too long. I really feel that this album hits the Ministry sound right on the mark, and I think anything after this would be downhill.

V. V.: You've been around for quite a while now. Was Ministry cloned over the years? Do you know of any bands that copy your sound?

A. J.: I don't know if you believe this or not, but I really don't listen to this kind of music in my house, so I wouldn't know. It's actually really funny when I meet some kids in the recording studio in the room next door and they apparently sound like a billion records worldwide. I don't even know who they are, and they're telling me I'm a big influence and all that and I'm very flattered, but to be honest, I wouldn't fuckin' know them from a hole in the ground.

V. V.: "The Last Sucker" has two sides - one is the music side, the other is the political one. Do you only point a finger at your government this way, or you also wanna prove that you guys in America still have the freedom of speech?

A. J.: That's what they tell us, but I'm not so sure it's so free anymore. That's the whole irony - our whole political agenda is to promote freedom and democracy across the world, yet the more the more they promote it, the more they take it away. People are afraid to voice their opinion, people are being spied upon, people are being wiretapped... It's not good.

V. V.: If we compare the situation of today with the one in the 70's...

A. J.: It's the same fuckin' thing! I lived through that - you've gotta remember I'm old enough. It's history repeating.

V. V.: We've seen in lots of movies that back in the 70's people who were pointing a finger at the U.S. government had real problems because of that. Do you expect to have problems because of the attitude you express in your records?

A. J.: Of course - I already have. Knowing and seeing those documentaries about the 70's we anticipated governmental moves against us, and the first thing they always do is to send the tax people on you. They check all your records and make sure your taxes are in order. Immediately after releasing "Houses of the Mole" (2004) the government sent people. We anticipated it, all of our paperwork was in order and there was really nothing they could fuckin' do.

V. V.: Although they call you "the godfather of industrial metal", at the end of the day, after listening to the messages behind the words and music of Ministry, I think your a good old-styled punk rocker after all. Am I right?

A. J.: Absolutely. My forming years, when I was in my very early 20's, I was living in London when Margaret Thatcher got elected, so bands like Crass, Discharge and UK Subs played really heavily in the stylization of the music - not necessarily the instrumentation, because I use a lot more keyboards, but certainly in the aggression factor.

V. V.: I understand you perfectly - the last show we at Tangra Mega Rock promoted was headlined by The Exploited, and they're definitely alive and kickin' and...

A. J.: And their latest album was really good! I think it's great when such bands are still alive and kicking and not just making shit for the money.

V. V.: As for American bands like W.A.S.P., Megadeth, Pro-Pain, etc. - all of them "dedicated" their latest records to the American government and the shitty situation in the world today. You do it too, so does it mean you're going mainstream?

A. J.: Ha-ha-ha! It seems like everything else I've done in my career, so no, I don't think so. The label that I've started is for pretty aggressive music and that's really what I'm concentrating on. It's just a natural evolution for me. Of course there are people telling me that I'll be doing a reunion tour in three years or a reunion album, and I just laugh. I've already announced this is the last Ministry album, I'm used to it, I've made arrangements to be really busy with working on shitload of projects, to whereas if I had Ministry in my life, it would take up all my fuckin' time - talking to you people, touring, recording. You see - now we're still talking about things that happened a year and a half ago, whereas this way I'll be able to do six or seven projects a year. It's kind of a guerilla tactics - I get in real quick, I hit hard and I get out. That suits my style much more.

V. V.: What about 13th Planet Records? So far you've signed Ministry, Revolting Cocks and Prong to your label, but they're all part of the Ministry family...

A. J.: That's right. Besides, I just signed Burton Bell's solo project Ascension of the Watchers. We'll start with the old-school stuff, because I know these guys, but we're also negotiating with other bands that I can't mention right now. Believe me, this will be a real label, not a retirement home for a bunch of ex-Ministry members.

V. V.: Do you have a long line of young bands cueing at the door of 13th Planet Records?

A. J.: Yes, we do.

V. V.: Last year we had this talk with guitar player Al Di Meola. He said that every artist in America stands against the presidency of George W. Bush. However, he's been elected, which means there are enough people to vote for him. Does it mean that...

A. J.: Right, but you have to understand how prevalent media manipulation is. I have a theory about this. I was in complete shock for two weeks after the 2000 election, and I was in shock for about six weeks after the 2004 election. I couldn't fuckin' believe there were that many stupid... no, not stupid, butВ gullible people! Then I realized that everything's so fucked since he's taken office that people have to work two, three, four jobs, and by the time they come home they don't wanna fuckin' think about politics or anything - they just try to make ends in this economy, in this American society, in this new millennium. They just sit there mindlessly like a sponge in front of the TV and are completely manipulated by the media, which are all owned by really fucked up greedy multinationalists. People are completely manipulated and too tired to fight back.

V. V.: Can we say that today America is divided in a way?

A. J.: I'd say right now America is in classic Fall of the Roman Empire stage. And can we say it's divided? Absolutely! There's like 25-30% of the people who, no matter what you tell them, consider it a sin or treason to speak out against your government if you're not happy. That will never change. Everyone sees how corrupt this government and this system have become. It says it's a democracy on paper, but it's been completely commandeered by money and greed. I can see people disillusioned with it, but there's also been a period of time when people rise up and take that power back. That's what we're ringing the bell for. People like Jello Biafra and Noam Chomsky have been doing this for years, as it is possible to take the power back. Of course, it takes effort, information and awareness, and that's what's not going into it right now, and I can see why - because people are too exhausted.

V. V.: Have you thought of how you'll make your political opinions public after you close the Ministry tribune?

A. J.: My political opinions are pretty documented. I remember seeing a right wing website a year ago that listed me as number 2 public enemy behind Michael Moore - this was one of the biggest compliments I've ever gotten in my life!

V. V.: Recently Henry Rollins went to Iraq to meet the U.S. troops. Would you do something like this?

A. J.: Of course!

V. V.: Do you think the biggest victims are the soldiers in the frontline?

A. J.: Absolutely, I really do. I even deal with it in a song on the new record, "Life Is Good". If you live under such an extreme pressure, eventually you snap. I seriously doubt that people have bloodlust and sign for the army to go and kill - 99% of these people are underprivileged and they do it so they can go to fuckin' college, because the government will pay for it if they go over there. So I don't blame them. I have friends that are in the military in that exact situation, and when they get there they realize that it's not fuckin' worth it.

V. V.: You were born in Cuba. Where do you see this country when Fidel Castro dies?

A. J.: Are you kidding? The whole country is already divided up in blood and soul by the same people who run the world government. It's just a matter of time and it's already done and planned - it's so much cheaper to buy it than to beat it. There's never gonna be a military invasion of Cuba, but there will be an economic invasion of unparallel proportion. The corruption of the 1950's under the Batista government, before Castro took over, is gonna seem like a small order of French fries compared to the big whopper that we've come up for.

V. V.: I was joking, of course... Now the Ministry logo - the M - is like a double Anarchy thing. Does this mean you've got a double punk rock attitude behind the band?

A. J.: Yes. Generally people might not associate a band that uses synthesizers instead of just three chords and yells as being able to be anarchistic, so I wanted to definitely make the statement right away: Oh yeah? Well, fuck you! We're twice anarchistic! Ha-ha-ha! Jello Biafra helped me create that logo, so it's got the stamp of approval.

V. V.: As far as I know, Jello has thousands of records in his living room...

A. J.: Tens of thousands.

V. V.: And he knows and remembers all of them. What do you have in your record collection? Is it that big?

A. J.: Oh, no, not even close. Jello is a freak of nature. He's like one of those idiots that scientists have to study his brain patterns, he-he! He's pretty much one of a kind. My record collection - if I ever had time actually to listen to shit - is basically jazz, country and classical music. I can't compete with Jello. He knows who the guitar player was on a Patti Page record from 1958...

V. V.: I know you like red wine. Why?

A. J.: It's the only thing that I don't wind up going to jail when I'm drunk on it. If I drink whiskey or vodka or tequila, generally some kind of altercation happens and I end up in a drunk tank talking to my lawyer, ha-ha! As for wine - I can sip on it all day, and you start learning to appreciate the different varieties and types and years... and pretty soon it becomes almost like kind of a hobby. Also, it doesn't impair my work and doesn't harm my liver the way hard liqueur did over the years.

V. V.: The fact that it's not gonna be Ministry anymore after your tour next summer...

A. J.: It's called The See You Latour.

V. V.: Does it mean you'll never go on a tour again?

A. J.: I would really enjoy that. I've learned pretty much by now on very few occasions to never say never, but I can tell you this: Never again another Ministry tour! Whether I go out with the Revolting Cocks or some other band - I don't know what opportunities I'll have, but I can say never about Ministry. This is a fine way to exit - with a tour on top of our game, surrounded by really great people. Anything from here on would be downhill.

V. V.: We know your wife works for your label, too, so you can spend more time together. Do you see this as a chance for a better family life?

A. J.: Absolutely. When we go on tour she comes with me anywhere, so when we do a Ministry tour, it's very difficult to do label work or to deal with other bands... I mean, this is so much of a better situation for me. Today, for example, I have Static-X flying in to sing on one of the songs on the cover record that I'm doing. If I was on tour with Ministry now, I would have missed this opportunity, and it's not easy to get all these people's different schedules in line with yours, so if I'm pretty much in one spot - in the studio or the label upstairs - it becomes much easier for those people to find me.

V. V.: Let's focus on "The Last Sucker" again. Technologically speaking, is there anything new on this record?

A. J.: No, absolutely nothing. But you know what? It kicks ass! It's like a new AC/DC record - nothing new, but it still kicks ass!

V. V.: However, there's some difference in the nuances. Regarding this, I wouldn't say it's the same record...

A. J.: Oh, no, but you said technologically. There's nothing new technologically, but nuances - yes. I think this record is a much different child than the last two, although it's a trilogy.

V. V.: And how exactly did Burton C. Bell win the privilege to take part in this album doing vocals on the last three tracks?

A. J.: It's really simple. He called me up and said, "I heard this is your last record. If there anything you want me to do - anything at all - I have the summer off and I can fly out there in three hours. I'll be there, I'll hang, I'll do whatever it takes, because you guys were a big influence." It was really just on Burton's phone call.

V. V.: Finally, tell us please something more about the upcoming See You Latour. Which countries do you plan to visit on this last Ministry tour?

A. J.: All over Europe. We've never done a European tour that lasted over three weeks and we even skipped it sometimes, but this time we'll do 9 to 11 weeks in Europe. For us this is the big middle finger to Europe finally, ha-ha-ha! We're quit playing, so go home! Ha-ha-ha! Of course, then we'll play the USA, Canada, Mexico, Japan, Australia and... I think we'll leave it like that. It's not gonna last like four years or anything - just a week in Japan, two in Australia, seven in North America and eleven in Europe and that's it.

V. V.: Last question. How would react if one day, while fishing, you see your beloved president George W. Bush sitting next to you with his fishing rod?

A. J.: Well, I'd rather be sitting next to him and Dick Chaney withВ a hunting rifle, so... Ha-ha-ha, I think I'd be much safer that way! And what would I say to him? My exact words would be, "How? How could you have been such an idiot? How could you let yourself become a complete puppet?" Of course, I already know the answer to that. He's a spoiled little child from a rich bloodline American family that got his way, and whatever he wanted he got. When he got in trouble for smoking crack or drunk driving, his lawyers covered it up. Everything he's ever touched has turned into sour, you know. Even when he bought a baseball team in America, they started losing... The guy is just a pure idiot loser. At this point, after three years of bashing him, I actually have pity for him. I feel sorry for him. That's what "The Last Sucker" is actually about - it's almost like, "Oh, you poor, stupid fuck! How could you have let yourself be so stupid?"

Copyright: Tangra Mega Rock